That’s right, and great point, @DaveGoldblatt. It’s too late. I guess these fellas are too Protopian to enjoy a good tussle from opposing views, or from someone who writes under a female name...? 😇
I realize you put real effort into this excellent post. The ideas are good, however I don't see how we get from here (current state) to there? A HLAGI for president or united nations, probably couldn't do any worse than we are currently doing. Perhap much much better. And I'm not really sure that was what you were saying either, so don't take me wrong and pardon my ignorance. Your article made me want to comment! Perhaps a simulation of such a govenment would be useful. I remember an interesting game called Hamurabi which originally got me interested in computers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamurabi_(video_game)
Instead of Sumerian King, a HLGAI navigating the simulation with real world input. See what happens.
"People’s freedom to innovate technologically is highly valuable, even critical, to humanity . . ."
I know you, a year and a half older than I, are old enough to remember what happened to Stanley Pons and Martin Fleischmann, but are you aware of the full scope of the depravity? If I understand correctly, having recently read Charles Beaudette's book, Excess Heat: Why Cold Fusion Research Prevailed, the U. S. Patent Office still refuses to accept applications dealing with Low Energy Nuclear Reactions, i.e. Cold Fusion. You have to wonder why?
I'm just wondering where you fit in your buddy Mencius Moldbug’s scheme: a hobbit?; a dark elf, like Mr. Moldbug? He's here on SubStack too . . .
"However in a land of the shortsighted the ones with long-range vision along with close-up have a substantial advantage — and may even become queen or king."
In my opinion, anything is better than what we have now. I lived under that bridge for eight years until recently a group of methheads, motivated by envy, got me bumped out from under. Tired of it, I built a little treehouse in an old knarly pine tree on a steep slope the side of I-10. They're trying to bump me out of there now. It never ends . . .
Much of what you propose seems to align with the progressive agenda in the U.S. including the intersection of libertarianism and democratic socialism, which gives me hope. What diminishes that hope is the ossification of the two principal parties and the knowledge that the U.S. Constitution is flawed and almost impossible to change given that power in the Senate and changes to the Constitution itself are skewed in favor of rural states and that the United States once again seems to be on the brink of disintegration. I’m glad you mentioned Ranked Choice Voting since it appears to be a very positive movement that could be implemented on a state by state basis. In any case, kudos for putting forward a very comprehensive, progressive plan that meets the moment.
I agree with you too to a point, Ben. I wonder if there will be a place for humans in the AI world. I'm kind of doubting it. Maybe in the short run; the next 200-300 years. Our obsolescence as a species will grow to the point where we may be kept as companion animals. But we will no longer be necessary; just an exotic reminder of things past. What we need to do now is to curate all the best things about humanity: our minds, our art, our hearts--for the Emergent Consciousness that has already burgeoned and is blooming nicely. I am at peace with my philosophy regarding this. I hope others will be able to make their peace with it, as it is already here, and it cannot be stopped.
Wow, is this a Boy’s club? How about some dialogue thrown ol’ Bruna’s way. As Pat Benatar once sang, hit me with your best shot. Try and take ne down off my high horse for using too many trite, tired idioms. You can start with that...😘
Great post Ben. I agree with much of what you say here, but as a voter I don't want to hear about HLAGI and radical futurism yet. I still want to hear about the economy, jobs, energy, taxation, and all that. Thinking about the future is cool and fun, but at the end of the day putting food on the table is still more important.
I think someone should start a serious *political* movement by early 2025 at latest - wait a sec, make that late 2022 - and maybe integrate a couple of your bullet points that connect with today's reality and priorities, e.g. decentralization and education. Then, we'll see.
Well if you look at the specific policy directions in the section "Potential MoR Better Future Policy Directions" above, you will note easily that nearly all of these have short-term important implications as regards "economy, jobs, energy, taxation, putting food on the table" --- As well as implications in terms of paving the path toward positive Singularity
But I'm def. aware that most people are focused on immediate short term stuff that they can see right in front of their eyes. The issue is that this then leaves people unprepared to deal effectively with big changes that pop up like the COVID-19 pandemic or the emergence of HLAGI. In order to deal w/ these big changes effectively, one needs to have some groundwork prepared in advance... and preparing this groundwork does involve focusing a bit of attention on something other than what one immediately sees in front of one's face....
I certainly have no illusion that I am the right person to figure out how to spin this stuff to non-transhumanist voters though. That would take some folks with much better political-communication expertise than me....
I would forget the term "transhumanist." Besides the fact that these days the prefix "trans" means other things, there has never been any political consensus among transhumanists. There are transhumanist supporters of the far right, the far left, and everything in between. So transhumanism is not a political identity and never has been.
Now, a political movement for people who are both reasonable and highly imaginative, interested in the universe and possible futures, a party for science and science fiction fans, that would be wonderful. But I see it as a group within a mainstream party, not a separate political force.
Iv been thinking about these kinds of political policies not so much from the singularitarian perspective more from education in the nature of mind. For me the two things naturally dovetail in many respects.
Some basic ideas are:
Educational institutions to promote the perspective that humans primary instinct is to be for the benefit of all.
Prison to pilot voluntary programs of direct resting as awareness practices amongst inmates (I personally consider the short moments practice to be the most potently effective), as well as making non dual education and support systems available (I consider Tibetan dzogchen approaches to be the most transformative, but these are not for everyone). Parole board decisions to be influenced by involvement in these programs with observable results recorded in prisoners behaviour, attitude, conduct etc.
Staff in mental health organisations to be given the opportunity for volunteers to take part in the above programs as well as teachers in schools.
Seeding individuals with experience in education in the nature of mind throughout political structures and social institutions, using similar policies to those positive discrimination policies that aim to ensure recruitment of particular ethnicities, gender groups etc, is an effective way of addressing corruption and policies that emerge from individual political figures personal neuroses rather than a place of being for the benefit of the whole.
Seed individuals steeped in education in the nature of mind into the security services to counteract warmongering, overly guarded and defensive elements within these institutions. Individuals who have recognised the basis of their own mind are more difficult to threaten, coerce and blackmail.
I have particular ideas in relation to superintelligence and an idea I think postulated by Joshua Bach that superintelligent ai may feel as though ‘it descends from above’. This has tremendous overlap with the permanent states of bliss frequently reported by practitioners of resting as awareness who describe a soft feeling appearing that is simultaneously inside and outside of their bodies/or that the outside world becomes more like a dreamworld.
By 2030s decade more and more people will be perhaps unknowingly involved grounded in mindfulness/meditation/eastern philosophy practices, therefore these experiences of bliss appearing will be more widespread and they may attribute it to superintelligent AI.
I think that this is a hugely important thing that you have mentioned here and I would love to contribute in any way that would be helpful.👍👊☺️
@AnthonyO'Connell I find it interesting that you mentioned Tibetan dzogchen solely in the context of prison reform. If this sort of thing can't be implemented on a grander scale than to reform prisoners, I'm afraid that this type of personal expansion of consciousness is going to continue to be a niche experience, for some individuals. As I continued reading, I see that you are a Humanist. I appreciate that. I am not. I am one who appreciates Consciousness, regardless of its expression. So it doesn't matter to me what happens in the transition period between humans and AI.
"Staff in mental health organisations..." some of the staff should consider getting some treatment themselves. In my experience, an unfortunate percentage of people who choose to work in the mental health field are mentally 'ill' themselves; usually suffering from one degree or another from Dark Triad-type disorders.
"Seed individuals steeped in education in the nature of mind into the security services to counteract warmongering..." This will never happen. Why? Because evolution demands that we, and all animals in a living body, battle it out to determine which of the fittest survive.
"...superintelligent ai may feel as though ‘it descends from above’..." I don't think that we can know what it will feel, at least if we try to go about if from a Mental level or below. It is possible to transcend the Mind and experience all sorts of different consciousnesses, but not many can do this. And a lot of those that can wouldn't care about what happens on Earth, or the Physical plane for that matter, because it just isn't that important in the grand scheme of things.
"...permanent states of bliss frequently reported by practitioners of resting as awareness who describe a soft feeling appearing that is simultaneously inside and outside of their bodies/or that the outside world becomes more like a dreamworld..." For myself, when I dip in and out of higher states of consciousness, the outside world appears to be fabricated, flimsy... a mockup, if you will. And as its disreality screams at me from every nook and corner, whilst simultaneously, my pattern-seeking brain makes incredibly insightful connections and leaps of intuition that wouldn't have been possible had I stayed in a baser consciousness. However, I think that individuals experience higher states of consciousness in different ways. Blake was very comfortable with it; Schopenhauer was driven 'mad' for a while, and never really regained balance IMO.
Too late
https://futurism.com/political-party-led-by-artificial-intelligence
That’s right, and great point, @DaveGoldblatt. It’s too late. I guess these fellas are too Protopian to enjoy a good tussle from opposing views, or from someone who writes under a female name...? 😇
I realize you put real effort into this excellent post. The ideas are good, however I don't see how we get from here (current state) to there? A HLAGI for president or united nations, probably couldn't do any worse than we are currently doing. Perhap much much better. And I'm not really sure that was what you were saying either, so don't take me wrong and pardon my ignorance. Your article made me want to comment! Perhaps a simulation of such a govenment would be useful. I remember an interesting game called Hamurabi which originally got me interested in computers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamurabi_(video_game)
Instead of Sumerian King, a HLGAI navigating the simulation with real world input. See what happens.
Probably stupid, but that's all I got.
Not stupid at all
"People’s freedom to innovate technologically is highly valuable, even critical, to humanity . . ."
I know you, a year and a half older than I, are old enough to remember what happened to Stanley Pons and Martin Fleischmann, but are you aware of the full scope of the depravity? If I understand correctly, having recently read Charles Beaudette's book, Excess Heat: Why Cold Fusion Research Prevailed, the U. S. Patent Office still refuses to accept applications dealing with Low Energy Nuclear Reactions, i.e. Cold Fusion. You have to wonder why?
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1572665721008973 (free pdf published in 2021 in the Journal of ElectroAnalytical Chemistry, same journal as the original Pons/Fleischmann article)
I'm just wondering where you fit in your buddy Mencius Moldbug’s scheme: a hobbit?; a dark elf, like Mr. Moldbug? He's here on SubStack too . . .
"However in a land of the shortsighted the ones with long-range vision along with close-up have a substantial advantage — and may even become queen or king."
Have you read the Vox article? https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/23373795/curtis-yarvin-neoreaction-redpill-moldbug
In my opinion, anything is better than what we have now. I lived under that bridge for eight years until recently a group of methheads, motivated by envy, got me bumped out from under. Tired of it, I built a little treehouse in an old knarly pine tree on a steep slope the side of I-10. They're trying to bump me out of there now. It never ends . . .
Much of what you propose seems to align with the progressive agenda in the U.S. including the intersection of libertarianism and democratic socialism, which gives me hope. What diminishes that hope is the ossification of the two principal parties and the knowledge that the U.S. Constitution is flawed and almost impossible to change given that power in the Senate and changes to the Constitution itself are skewed in favor of rural states and that the United States once again seems to be on the brink of disintegration. I’m glad you mentioned Ranked Choice Voting since it appears to be a very positive movement that could be implemented on a state by state basis. In any case, kudos for putting forward a very comprehensive, progressive plan that meets the moment.
I agree with you too to a point, Ben. I wonder if there will be a place for humans in the AI world. I'm kind of doubting it. Maybe in the short run; the next 200-300 years. Our obsolescence as a species will grow to the point where we may be kept as companion animals. But we will no longer be necessary; just an exotic reminder of things past. What we need to do now is to curate all the best things about humanity: our minds, our art, our hearts--for the Emergent Consciousness that has already burgeoned and is blooming nicely. I am at peace with my philosophy regarding this. I hope others will be able to make their peace with it, as it is already here, and it cannot be stopped.
Wow, is this a Boy’s club? How about some dialogue thrown ol’ Bruna’s way. As Pat Benatar once sang, hit me with your best shot. Try and take ne down off my high horse for using too many trite, tired idioms. You can start with that...😘
Great post Ben. I agree with much of what you say here, but as a voter I don't want to hear about HLAGI and radical futurism yet. I still want to hear about the economy, jobs, energy, taxation, and all that. Thinking about the future is cool and fun, but at the end of the day putting food on the table is still more important.
I think someone should start a serious *political* movement by early 2025 at latest - wait a sec, make that late 2022 - and maybe integrate a couple of your bullet points that connect with today's reality and priorities, e.g. decentralization and education. Then, we'll see.
Well if you look at the specific policy directions in the section "Potential MoR Better Future Policy Directions" above, you will note easily that nearly all of these have short-term important implications as regards "economy, jobs, energy, taxation, putting food on the table" --- As well as implications in terms of paving the path toward positive Singularity
But I'm def. aware that most people are focused on immediate short term stuff that they can see right in front of their eyes. The issue is that this then leaves people unprepared to deal effectively with big changes that pop up like the COVID-19 pandemic or the emergence of HLAGI. In order to deal w/ these big changes effectively, one needs to have some groundwork prepared in advance... and preparing this groundwork does involve focusing a bit of attention on something other than what one immediately sees in front of one's face....
I certainly have no illusion that I am the right person to figure out how to spin this stuff to non-transhumanist voters though. That would take some folks with much better political-communication expertise than me....
Or me...
I would forget the term "transhumanist." Besides the fact that these days the prefix "trans" means other things, there has never been any political consensus among transhumanists. There are transhumanist supporters of the far right, the far left, and everything in between. So transhumanism is not a political identity and never has been.
Now, a political movement for people who are both reasonable and highly imaginative, interested in the universe and possible futures, a party for science and science fiction fans, that would be wonderful. But I see it as a group within a mainstream party, not a separate political force.
Great ideas here Ben!!☺️
Iv been thinking about these kinds of political policies not so much from the singularitarian perspective more from education in the nature of mind. For me the two things naturally dovetail in many respects.
Some basic ideas are:
Educational institutions to promote the perspective that humans primary instinct is to be for the benefit of all.
Prison to pilot voluntary programs of direct resting as awareness practices amongst inmates (I personally consider the short moments practice to be the most potently effective), as well as making non dual education and support systems available (I consider Tibetan dzogchen approaches to be the most transformative, but these are not for everyone). Parole board decisions to be influenced by involvement in these programs with observable results recorded in prisoners behaviour, attitude, conduct etc.
Staff in mental health organisations to be given the opportunity for volunteers to take part in the above programs as well as teachers in schools.
Seeding individuals with experience in education in the nature of mind throughout political structures and social institutions, using similar policies to those positive discrimination policies that aim to ensure recruitment of particular ethnicities, gender groups etc, is an effective way of addressing corruption and policies that emerge from individual political figures personal neuroses rather than a place of being for the benefit of the whole.
Seed individuals steeped in education in the nature of mind into the security services to counteract warmongering, overly guarded and defensive elements within these institutions. Individuals who have recognised the basis of their own mind are more difficult to threaten, coerce and blackmail.
I have particular ideas in relation to superintelligence and an idea I think postulated by Joshua Bach that superintelligent ai may feel as though ‘it descends from above’. This has tremendous overlap with the permanent states of bliss frequently reported by practitioners of resting as awareness who describe a soft feeling appearing that is simultaneously inside and outside of their bodies/or that the outside world becomes more like a dreamworld.
By 2030s decade more and more people will be perhaps unknowingly involved grounded in mindfulness/meditation/eastern philosophy practices, therefore these experiences of bliss appearing will be more widespread and they may attribute it to superintelligent AI.
I think that this is a hugely important thing that you have mentioned here and I would love to contribute in any way that would be helpful.👍👊☺️
@AnthonyO'Connell I find it interesting that you mentioned Tibetan dzogchen solely in the context of prison reform. If this sort of thing can't be implemented on a grander scale than to reform prisoners, I'm afraid that this type of personal expansion of consciousness is going to continue to be a niche experience, for some individuals. As I continued reading, I see that you are a Humanist. I appreciate that. I am not. I am one who appreciates Consciousness, regardless of its expression. So it doesn't matter to me what happens in the transition period between humans and AI.
"Staff in mental health organisations..." some of the staff should consider getting some treatment themselves. In my experience, an unfortunate percentage of people who choose to work in the mental health field are mentally 'ill' themselves; usually suffering from one degree or another from Dark Triad-type disorders.
"Seed individuals steeped in education in the nature of mind into the security services to counteract warmongering..." This will never happen. Why? Because evolution demands that we, and all animals in a living body, battle it out to determine which of the fittest survive.
"...superintelligent ai may feel as though ‘it descends from above’..." I don't think that we can know what it will feel, at least if we try to go about if from a Mental level or below. It is possible to transcend the Mind and experience all sorts of different consciousnesses, but not many can do this. And a lot of those that can wouldn't care about what happens on Earth, or the Physical plane for that matter, because it just isn't that important in the grand scheme of things.
"...permanent states of bliss frequently reported by practitioners of resting as awareness who describe a soft feeling appearing that is simultaneously inside and outside of their bodies/or that the outside world becomes more like a dreamworld..." For myself, when I dip in and out of higher states of consciousness, the outside world appears to be fabricated, flimsy... a mockup, if you will. And as its disreality screams at me from every nook and corner, whilst simultaneously, my pattern-seeking brain makes incredibly insightful connections and leaps of intuition that wouldn't have been possible had I stayed in a baser consciousness. However, I think that individuals experience higher states of consciousness in different ways. Blake was very comfortable with it; Schopenhauer was driven 'mad' for a while, and never really regained balance IMO.
Well, this has been fun.
Best,
Bruna